^ that's my point =P
Visual Kei and Money
- Thread starter boi de memoire
- Start date
Yeah, I really agree with Geisha. The very fact that he only does occasional, large-ish venue performances probably bespeaks the success he's having through product sales. I think he'd perform more often if he needed more exposure and money.
I think his CD sales must pull in a decent profit.
I think his CD sales must pull in a decent profit.
I think the official Oricon charts say much better about his CD sales than how much he performs? o.O; It's not on the chart, it doesn't sell. That's how it works. D:
It costs money to book venues and Mana probably just CAN'T affoard doing so many lives. MDM is a "live" band as Mana himself puts it and music is his life. Bands who make alot of money are bands who can pull off alot of shows and get them sold out all the time, not bands who play a monthly show, unless they're already rich. If Mana were rich he'd live in a castle or something anyways
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Also, it's not that he doesn't do it so he doesn't have to. Mainstream japan does NOT want Mana.
It costs money to book venues and Mana probably just CAN'T affoard doing so many lives. MDM is a "live" band as Mana himself puts it and music is his life. Bands who make alot of money are bands who can pull off alot of shows and get them sold out all the time, not bands who play a monthly show, unless they're already rich. If Mana were rich he'd live in a castle or something anyways
.Also, it's not that he doesn't do it so he doesn't have to. Mainstream japan does NOT want Mana.
Here's something that was written by a guest a while back:
"While Oricon ranks by scans of the barcode upon purchase (which is heavily commercially motivated and inflated), Daiki-Sound is Japan's biggest distributor of Indies labels, bands, and the like. They however base their rankings upon number of products purchased by retailers; however, they are still somewhat accurate (retailers won't just keep buying CDs to sell if no one is buying them).
If you look on Daiki-Sound's Visual ranking, Moi dix Mois seems to always lurk on the Top #20s (and even Malice Mizer [and even Voyage XD]). Usually, when there are new Moi dix Mois releases, they always go to #1 and head around to #5 or so for many weeks after. So in the Visual Indies seen, they are steady sellers; whereas Midi:Nette is an independent record label, this is a chunk of Mana's salary (unlike majors, where the artist receives only royalities [and most goes to the record company for paying for promotion, artwork, videos, commercials, etc.] from releases and gain most of their income from lives, advertising, etc.).
On topic, Moi dix Mois does well in their scene appropriately. But compared to Oricon Top 50 sales; nope. But the reason why you won't see Moi dix Mois on Oricon is because Midi:Nette is not paying royalties. Although, with the release of [Dix Infernal] there was a blurb on the frontpage with the album cover et al. Also, you will find [Perfect Garden] on Oricon; Midi:Nette most likely promoted it for their debut, but notice no futher releases are listed? Anyways...No PVs, no CMs, no pimping on music sites; clearly Midi:Nette has a different strategy.
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"While Oricon ranks by scans of the barcode upon purchase (which is heavily commercially motivated and inflated), Daiki-Sound is Japan's biggest distributor of Indies labels, bands, and the like. They however base their rankings upon number of products purchased by retailers; however, they are still somewhat accurate (retailers won't just keep buying CDs to sell if no one is buying them).
If you look on Daiki-Sound's Visual ranking, Moi dix Mois seems to always lurk on the Top #20s (and even Malice Mizer [and even Voyage XD]). Usually, when there are new Moi dix Mois releases, they always go to #1 and head around to #5 or so for many weeks after. So in the Visual Indies seen, they are steady sellers; whereas Midi:Nette is an independent record label, this is a chunk of Mana's salary (unlike majors, where the artist receives only royalities [and most goes to the record company for paying for promotion, artwork, videos, commercials, etc.] from releases and gain most of their income from lives, advertising, etc.).
On topic, Moi dix Mois does well in their scene appropriately. But compared to Oricon Top 50 sales; nope. But the reason why you won't see Moi dix Mois on Oricon is because Midi:Nette is not paying royalties. Although, with the release of [Dix Infernal] there was a blurb on the frontpage with the album cover et al. Also, you will find [Perfect Garden] on Oricon; Midi:Nette most likely promoted it for their debut, but notice no futher releases are listed? Anyways...No PVs, no CMs, no pimping on music sites; clearly Midi:Nette has a different strategy.
"So basically they sell good for the indies scene, but not the commercial and popular scene? Hooray, I'm going to become a billionaire!
Thank you for digging up that info, I had forgotten exactly how Daiki's and Oricon's rankings are made up. And yeah, M10M do pretty well on Daiki.Berserk wrote:Here's something that was written by a guest a while back:
"While Oricon ranks by scans of the barcode upon purchase (which is heavily commercially motivated and inflated), Daiki-Sound is Japan's biggest distributor of Indies labels, bands, and the like. They however base their rankings upon number of products purchased by retailers; however, they are still somewhat accurate (retailers won't just keep buying CDs to sell if no one is buying them).
If you look on Daiki-Sound's Visual ranking, Moi dix Mois seems to always lurk on the Top #20s (and even Malice Mizer [and even Voyage XD]). Usually, when there are new Moi dix Mois releases, they always go to #1 and head around to #5 or so for many weeks after. So in the Visual Indies seen, they are steady sellers; whereas Midi:Nette is an independent record label, this is a chunk of Mana's salary (unlike majors, where the artist receives only royalities [and most goes to the record company for paying for promotion, artwork, videos, commercials, etc.] from releases and gain most of their income from lives, advertising, etc.).
On topic, Moi dix Mois does well in their scene appropriately. But compared to Oricon Top 50 sales; nope. But the reason why you won't see Moi dix Mois on Oricon is because Midi:Nette is not paying royalties. Although, with the release of [Dix Infernal] there was a blurb on the frontpage with the album cover et al. Also, you will find [Perfect Garden] on Oricon; Midi:Nette most likely promoted it for their debut, but notice no futher releases are listed? Anyways...No PVs, no CMs, no pimping on music sites; clearly Midi:Nette has a different strategy.
There's a difference between being a billionaire and getting by without having to stretch yourself. Mana's probably in the second category.Kamijo wrote:
I think the feeling is mutual.Kamijo wrote:Mainstream japan does NOT want Mana.
Who was trying to say they're popular? I don't think anyone has claimed as much. And why does that matter? We're discussing how much we think they earn, not judging their validity according to popularity.
I don't know if you realize this, but art isn't a popularity contest--does it really matter to you if an artist can be picked up at a grocery store as opposed to more obscure medium? Personally, I find the underground can be much more rewarding.
I missed it earlier, but that's really stupid. First: lives aren't an expense, they earn money. Second: Do you even know what kind of venues they perform at?
I don't know about the Japanese ones, but they really get into nice venues in Europe. They've played at L'Elysée Montmartre (Definitely one of the best spots for rock performances in Paris. It's a historic building designed by Gustav Eiffel.); they've played at LA LOCOMOTIVE, a venue right next to the Moulin Rouge; they played at the Georg Elser Halle; and they headlined for the Wave Gotik Treffen. These aren't piddly gigs, and if Moi dix Mois couldn't afford to book venues, these would be some of the last places they'd go. Maybe you should take a look at some of the pictures on their website's gallery.
Mana isn't some broke, aimless artist begging for a chance to do what almost all bands do regularly--Moi dix Mois is different from the typical band structure in nearly every way, it has very different goals, and it's a success (unless you consider "success" having your face aired around the country to sell candy or some other crap).
I disagree =O.... everybody likes to sell, I mean, "the goal" is to live out of your music, at least that's my goal XD
Berserk wrote:
Agreed with Geisha.
@Berserk
Thanks for digging that up!
Berserk wrote:
I'd like to know just why everyone around here seems to think that this notion of 'celebrity' or 'sucess' is such an inherently black-and-white horrible thing, as if you're all holding it at arms length, pinching your nose, and making some sort of 'oh poo' gesture with, like, a mysterious third arm specifically reserved for iconoclasm.
Probably because so many promising young artists, lured by the prospect of becoming rich and famous, end up abandoning artistic integrity in favour of mainstream commercial success and become unoriginal and boring.Elec wrote:
Geisha wrote:
This was somewhat the answer I was expecting and the only one I foresaw myself agreeing with in any part.
So, just as long as we're on the same page regarding that this is not necessarily the case; I can think of several artists I respect who's image/music is currently being used for an ad campaign of some sort (at the moment, for example: L'arc, Gackt, Kimura Kaela).
^ TOTALLY!
From my perspective, he got the idea from previous ways the same things were mentioned, and in the context in which it was used.
The point of my post wasn't to condemn the commercial activities of other artists. I'm pointing out that just because Mana isn't doing what you see other big-name, successful artists doing doesn't mean he isn't being successful himself. He's keeping the project strong (really, it's getting increasingly better), he's achieving his goals, and he's therefore a success.
Unless, of course, you define success by those things that are completely irrelevant to music and achieving artistic goals. Honestly, if Mana ended up in a commercial, I'd just give him a little "ho-hum"--it's not a sin of any sort. It's just not what an artist should be judged by.
Unless, of course, you define success by those things that are completely irrelevant to music and achieving artistic goals. Honestly, if Mana ended up in a commercial, I'd just give him a little "ho-hum"--it's not a sin of any sort. It's just not what an artist should be judged by.
I think he was in a print ad for "Dragon Warrior" merchandise back in his major days. It was probably his idea in the first placeBerserk wrote:
Yeah, and he also dressed up as a character from some anime which was also for an ad I think. :O
Berserk wrote:
Again, relieved that we're on the same page. (page 10 in fact, hurr hurr ::kisaki:
It's not the measure of success necessarily at all, but it IS the difference between "household name" and "who?". It's always so fascinating to watch people who were so sure that Malice was this mega-huge The Monkees of Their Time or something finally learn that no one from Japan seems to be even cursorily familiar with anyone but Gackt--which of course shatters their world even more. :-PIt's also the difference between "a commercial here and there" and "complete oversaturation". The Johnny's entertainment guys are so ubiquitious it's beyond sickening.
And this is coming from someone who watches SMAPxSMAP religiously every Monday night.