MM interview (subject - homossexuality)

[Cerceaux]

The impression I got from this interview was that the person interviewing them was asking a dangerous question with the hope that one of them might blurt out something revealing. But they sensed that, and talked circles around it without really answering the question (like they usually do).
Did that make any sense? My grammar is awful today.
Anyway, I think MM has a habit of giving deliberately confusing answers to interview questions, so I'm not going to read too deeply into this one.
However it was interesting to see how each of them used a different strategy to tackle the question. They really do have different personalities (while still being equally wierd ^_^).

 

[Es-chan]

(edit: this is directed at Miruku and Garnet in the Eden)

Indeed ^^ I really think it doesn't matter.. Liking Mana and ManaxGackt, or just Mana.. You still love an artist for what he does, like the other fans. You only also love a couple, which the artist happens to be part of.

If you'd only love Mana and Gackt as a couple, and not as a person, a artist.. Then that'd be something odd xD

 

[Garnet in the Eden]

^ "If you'd only love Mana and Gackt as a couple, and not as a person, a artist.. Then that'd be something odd xD"

Exactly!! There are some people like that I believe.

 

[Kiaiku]

A question off topic...Am I the only one who doesn't see in "Illuminati" live an act of sex performing when Gackt's in the middle of Mana and Kozi?

I see it as sexual, but the song is about sex. It always seemed like an expression of the Illuminati's theme, the same way they'd do other skits. So I view it differently than most kinds of fanservice (a characterization, not a pointless bit of eroticism).

Let me rephrase it, it has a sex connotation, but some say that they're actually faking a sex performance, and I only see that as an choreography act and not "hey" look at us! we're making a sex performance like Rammstein does when they perform Buch dich!"

 

[SuomiGoth]

*has read this topic with fascination*

Hasn't this topic been completely pulled out of proportion?
I can see how an interview where homosexuality was discussed can lead to thoughts about yaoi and cross-dressing, two subjects I think don't share much of a connection, but is this discussion in the right forum section?

My two pence:
First: Art has no gender.
To me that's what the biggest idea behind cross-dressing is.

Secondly: I believe it was Kyuketsu who already spoke about the element of taboo and shock. And what would shock the society more than a guy dressing up as a woman and *le gasp* performing sexual tinted actions on stage?!
VK is about extremes; trying to find the set borders and cross them. Personally, it was this element of 'extremism' that got me interested in this style. We find this in other musical genres too; From Elvis's vulgair hipswaying in the 50s, the punk-rockers from the 70s and 80's who were against anything institutional and more, to todays musicians/bands like Marylin Manson, Cradle of Flith and Dimmu Borgir, who are basically out there to shock. And they were/are massively popular, (specially amongst the people who try to be different amongst the rest).
I still have to much respect for a lot of Japanese VK musicians to say that they do all these extreme things to draw public to them (though some bands indeed seem to use this element for that). I still like to believe it comes all from the desire inside every human to express themselves and in that try to cross the borders set by society.

One can also choose to cross-dress as a statement. Robert Smith (The Cure) once went dressed in a dress to highschool to shock and because he was asked to express himself.

There is something I read here that I had never thought about. I forgot who wrote it, but it was something along the lines that the feminine dressed bandmember in a VK band was their to appeal to the female fans. Never thought about that, will give it some more thought ^^ Thank you.


BTW in linking yaoi with crossdressing... think about this: Yaoi fanfics or with the term I started to know it: Slash first started with Star Trek in the 70s and later with bands like Guns 'n Roses and Metallica... not much crossdressers in those ne?

 

[Kyuketsuki]

There is something I read here that I had never thought about. I forgot who wrote it, but it was something along the lines that the feminine dressed bandmember in a VK band was their to appeal to the female fans. Never thought about that, will give it some more thought ^^ Thank you.

That was me. XD Really, though. You see it in most vk bands the one member who is consistantly female: Mana, Hizaki, Shinya (although deg's probably not the best example, but the others are)- all represent the female side of a band full of guys. So, since pretty much everyone's theme is 'What is Human?', you must have both sides of the coin to represent that. Ying and yang, male and female, light and dark- Malice Mizer covered all those bases perfectly. I think my favorite example of their concept of how a song can be both dark and positive is 'le ciel'. The live performance was gackt as a black angel with blood dripping from him since he was also the vampire, but in the PV, the tables are turned and he's a white angel of salvation to this lost girl who is realizing what it means to be thankful for what you have. Through Visual Kei, they could swing it any way they wanted, and the fact that it *could* go either way was simply enforced their theme of 'what is human?' showing how actions can be good or bad depending on how you interpret them- in that sense I guess you could say that every action is a contradiction. Through showing people this, the question that the band then presents to the fans and the audience is, "Ok, we've given you this information, so which is it? In your hearts, which one is the correct interpretation and why? You have to figure this out. This is what we offer. This is what we give to you."

 

[Berserk]

Well, everybody has long since stolen any thunder I could have ever hoped to have at this point (especially Navate and flowers), but I think any connection between crossdressing (especially in the case of VK) and homosexuality is purely arbitrary and a lotta shallow.

I'm disturbed that our culture (at least over here in the West) has reached a point where nearly everyone is of the opinion that a man dressing as a woman can only mean that he's a flaming homosexual trying to attract men. Are there no artistic possibilities with crossdressing? Is crossdressing not in any way a valid form of expression outside of the more raunchy sexual possibilities it provides?

I'm of the opinion (based on what he says) that Mana views his appearance as a canvas. When he requires a woman or girl to evoke the proper response from his audience, he uses it. When he requires a masculine appearance, or a genderless appearance (which can often be interpreted as 'feminine' by the careless eye, but I digress) he uses it. It's not about his sexuality. It's not about the fangirls even (well... maybe a little bit in Merveilles ) But all in all, this whole question of "does that mean he's gay?" is really silly and completely besides the point.

VK Crossdressing is nothing more than expressionism taken to the extreme.

 

[SDjilliaRE]

Personally, I have never thought of Mana X anyone because I don't like to think of him in that way, but I respect the fact that others do, I guess.

Same here. One of my friends was like, "If Mana was a girl, you'd do him wouldn't you?". That really pissed me off. I've never thought of him like that, nor do I ever plan to.

 

[Berserk]

One of my friends was like, "If Mana was a girl, you'd do him wouldn't you?". That really pissed me off. I've never thought of him like that, nor do I ever plan to.

I totally feel for you. I wish that was all I've heard.

I've found that most people are immediately convinced that he's a sexual fetish of mine or some twisted crap like that whenever I mention him. That's why I don't mention him. You never realize how deep people's prejudism goes until you show them Mana.

I've never thought of him as anything more or less than an artist and a man, and I have no intention of changing that.

 

[Elec]

Wait, so y'all are telling me that you've never been attracted to a musician or an actor or actress or anything? Are you denying the existence and, I dare say, the necessity of a sexual energy within yourself vis a vis these performers? Yeah yeah, it's about the music or whatever, but for example, Suomi brought up Elvis and then you can bring up the Beatles and yeah I mean their music was great but I'm willing to posit that a more thorough appreciation of them is to admit that dang, they were lookers/had really attractive personalities and countless people were, at whatever level, sexually drawn to that, just as you all are.

For a male fan, for example, it shouldn't be posited as "if [so and so] were a girl", but rather how you feel even though you know that it is what it is. And for female fans well I dunno; I'm sure jaesthete can say better than I can.

Art is meant to draw you in rapturously: even when the "art" happens to be a real live human. Be as clinical as you want (I often am) but these elements are there and its clear the bands use them very strategically.

 

[navate]

Of course I've been attracted; I believe I said that in my post. There's nothing wrong with superficial attraction. But it doesn't rule me; that's what I mean by it being about the music. Some of those boys are hot hot hot, but my attraction to them is overshadowed by whether or not I like their music, their personalities, the way they carry themselves, etc. I find a person's presence to be the most attractive thing. And in regards to VK, I always find it thrilling when someone's face is as beautiful as their music. It enhances it in some way, as though they were a visual manifestation. So in the end the sexual attraction still comes back to the chaste artform.

I draw a very distinct line between sensuality/sexual energy, and actually viewing a person as a sex "commodity". The sensuality is appealing because it is a part of the rapture of art, but making it completely sexualized is not appealing to me at all. I can admire how gorgeous someone is without fantasizing about them getting into each others' pants, ya know?

(On the subject of Mana, I have to voice the same as others... I admire him and I think he is incredibly beautiful, but oh my god I have NEVER EVER viewed him in a sexual light. He is a perfect example of the rapture of art without any funny stuff going on.)

 

[SDjilliaRE]

@Berserk: Totally. Just at the mention of someone like Mana makes people flip. The whole "men are this" and "women are that" morals are too deep rooted in everyone's minds (getting a little off topic).

@Elec: Of course I have; Who hasn't? But that's not to say I feel that way about everyone.

It's just for me weird to think about him in that perspective.

 

[Leleth]

Why should we think every jrock artist in sexual perspective? We don't do that to western artist do we? Sure there are those who think pairing Justin Timberlake and 50cent would be awesome (O.O) but why is it that all this yaoi stuff is so popular among fans of japanese rock/pop scene? I admit that I rarely read PLC fanfics but I find the idea of reading fanfiction about real people a bit strange. Nothing against it though in general.

And about Kami being gay.... So what if he is? It doesn't make me disrespect him in anyway and if he indeed has said openly that he is then I'm very proud of him and that he wasn't ashamed of his sexuality. But again, let's wait for the scans so someone can clear that out.

 

[Krampus]

is just me, or is their a stinky smell of hoax in the air?

 

[Elec]

Why should we think every jrock artist in sexual perspective? We don't do that to western artist do we?

It's not about pairing the artists up with other artists; it's about the energy and sensuality (which is the word I was looking for; thanks) between oneself and the performer. If that manifests itself in the listener as a desire to craft stories about them then so be it, I guess.

but why is it that all this yaoi stuff is so popular among fans of japanese rock/pop scene?

Because not everything stands on its own little island; sometimes cultural things overlap or are inextricably linked with other things.

I admit that I rarely read PLC fanfics but I find the idea of reading fanfiction about real people a bit strange. Nothing against it though in general.

I suspect this is because most of us are seeing both the performer and the real person as one in the same artistic entity. Fanfiction merely use the performer's character.

It's sort of like how Neil Patrick Harris played a twisted version of himself in "Harold & Kumar", or how Patrick Stewart played himself as a single-minded lecher in "Extras", or how Larry David willingly allows us to view him/his self-named character as a horrible, horrible person on "Curb Your Enthusiasm". XD

ninja edit: you guys are making me defend fanfic wtc

 

[MorganIvy]

I admit that I rarely read PLC fanfics but I find the idea of reading fanfiction about real people a bit strange. Nothing against it though in general.

I suspect this is because most of us are seeing both the performer and the real person as one in the same artistic entity. Fanfiction merely use the performer's character.

This is exactly what I've been talking about with Es-chan and what I was going to answer to Leleth. I don't see them as real people in fanfics, I see the character they create. And specially for Malice Mizer, that's pretty easy... And fanfiction doesn't necessarily have to envolve sex or yaoi, which most people seem to be forgetting in the topic.

Why should we think every jrock artist in sexual perspective? We don't do that to western artist do we?

You don't? I do... And I still don't see what is wrong with that.


Why are we having the fanfiction and yaoi discussion again anyway? Can't we focus on finding the magazine or scans or whatever? -__-

 

[Leleth]

@MorganIvy
No no, I didn't mean that there is anything wrong with admiring the artist's appearance and finding the artist attractive, I do that too of course, but I was merely pointing out that this seems to go in a whole new level with bands who use costumes and makeup to create a completely different person. It is quite understandable since it's often the visual side people see before they hear the music. I think it's not that common with western artist and all. Sure especially female artist tend to win over male fans with the lack of clothing...

And I understand what MorganIvy and Elec said about fanfiction. Even if the fanfiction was more about the character the artist represents it's still a bit uncomfortable. But that is just my opinion, and like I said, I do read them sometimes, but I prefer the ones with fictional characters.

Yeah, this is totally off topic.. Gawd, let's just talk about the scans ya all^_^

 

[Kyuketsuki]

Why are we having the fanfiction and yaoi discussion again anyway?

I could tell you, but that would be pointing fingers.

Let's just wait for some scans, translate them ourselves, and get back on topic.

 

[Berserk]

It's not about pairing the artists up with other artists; it's about the energy and sensuality (which is the word I was looking for; thanks) between oneself and the performer. If that manifests itself in the listener as a desire to craft stories about them then so be it, I guess.

I'm in concordance with this, but it contrasts with earlier statements flung around saying that VK Crossdressing was essentially a manifestation of Yaoi and that its purposes and goals were in common. I don't think most VK Crossdressers have that goal at all. In fact, many of them are very modest and dress with floor-length dresses, or covered arms and legs, or something that doesn't at all have the goal of exciting sexual interest.

If sexual interest is incited, so be it, but I don't think that's the goal of this here. Even in the case of Malice Mizer and ILLUMINATI, that was one song. They rarely did anything of that nature, and when they did the theme was simply 'strange sexual fetishes'--not "we're an effeminate, young, boyish, homosexual couple that likes to give eachother footrubs and kisses".

Let's just wait for some scans, translate them ourselves, and get back on topic.

Sounds good to me. The LJ translation seems to have completely stripped the interview of all the subtleties and implications made by the band members, and it's confusing and graceless. It leaves me wondering "wut?" half the time, and I'm really having trouble making sense of Kami's statements. They sound like he's coming out on the one hand, but on the other they don't flow naturally and really don't even seem to have any logical sequence. I'm just kind of confused about the whole thing.

 

[Juno42]

One slightly-to-the-side-of-topic question: I read in one or two places that Kami had a kid. Is this so? I ask merely out of curiosity.

:3