Would you switch to handkerchiefs and/or bidets?

Would you switch to using handkerchiefs and/or bidets?

  • I would switch to hankies, but not bidets.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I would switch to bidets, but not hankies.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I wouldn't switch to either. I strongly prefer Kleenex and toilet paper.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I would switch to hankies AND bidets.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

MissUMana

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@faith: if you know Frédéric Beigbeder, you certainly know what a perfectly exasperating man he is, and how he loves nothing like provoking people, but he is also an intelligent bloke, who likes to hide just how learned he is. Unlike most of his peers though, he is not ashamed of being French, and the interview I was referring to was about the French being the best lovers in the world, ahahahah! And of course it had to be him they chose to be ridiculously sure the French were the best, gratifying the Germans with a "too athletic", the Americans with a "too hygienic", the Spanish "too macho", the Italians "too talkative", etc, etc... But of course as always he's not really taking himself too seriously, so it's very funny.

I don't think the French at large know about the Americans being obsessed with hygiene. They know they care about it, but they'd really laugh (like me) reading your considerations about toilet paper, wipes, tissues versus handkerchiefs, bidets versus toilets, etc, etc. We honestly don't stay awake at night thinking about such things, but it's just a cultural difference, and no offense meant.
 

Iskanderia

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I, for one, don't mind being saddled with the stereotype of being "too" clean.
 

Cerceaux

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PureElegance wrote:
Berserk wrote:
Don't you ever have to walk places? I guess you've never had to work outside in the Winter, being a Floridian and all, but there's not always a fresh tissue or a trash can handy.
Haven't you heard of palanquins? Gosh.
This is so going in my signature. :lol:
 

Berserk

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PE wrote:
Good attempt to convert me to the dark side but... I can't, I can't! XD
Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as Berserk and PureElegance! Come with me! It is the only way!

Well, I tried ::meev::


I was hoping that these kinds of lifestyle changes would be the easy ones we could make to be more sustainable, but I guess America just isn't ready for the hankie. At least the bidet is a "maybe".

@MissUMana: Yeah, we used to be a nation of pioneers--now we're a nation of shrinking violets! Our hygiene habits are really decadent and silly. We'd sooner clearcut a forest than go without our extra-soft, quilted toilet paper. We overuse antibiotics and sanitizers because we're so afraid of bacteria, yet we're creating super-resistant strains in the process. It boggles the mind. I don't get it.

I remember the little old lady next door warning me before I went to Europe when I was 12: "Bring your own toilet paper! The toilet paper over there is like sand paper! It's awful!" XD

It makes you wonder how the Europeans have survived all these years with their scratchy, recycled TP and bidets. You're much tougher than we are :roll:
 

PureElegance

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Iska wrote:
I, for one, don't mind being saddled with the stereotype of being "too" clean.
And I don't mind being seen as too macho.

Berserk wrote:
Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as Berserk and PureElegance! Come with me! It is the only way!

Well, I tried ::meev::
LOL booooooooo~

I was hoping that these kinds of lifestyle changes would be the easy ones we could make to be more sustainable, but I guess America just isn't ready for the hankie. At least the bidet is a "maybe".
What are you talking about, Americans used to use handkerchiefs all the time, especially men. It was a cultural thing (no one cared about the environment) until recently but now it's out of style so not many people do it anymore. I think a way to bring it back is to emphasize how eco-friendly it is, since that's pretty hot in the market and people buy into that. But there's the whole "ew" factor now because seriously, sticking your face in snot all the time is not appealing. I understand wiping your sweat off but the snot thing is gross.

And I think if you want people to use bidets, you'd have to show them that they NEED it somehow because no one's going to buy the combo or a separate bidet since people don't have that kind of money or space. You'd have to do all the plumbing work too or make sure it's near an outlet.

So your only alternative is the attachment. I would say even a $40 bidet thingy is kind of steep especially if you don't need it. Maybe if it was in the $15-$25 range it would have a more widespread use, but then what's the point since people (even you) will still use toilet paper to dry off ? XD Because most Americans can't afford the bidet toilet for the air spray.
It just doesn't seem to be an efficient change to focus on imo.


(I'm reading reviews for the portable bidet [I think you just spray the water at yourself lol] and people are complaining about the $15 price and that it doesn't do much. Hmm, but I think it's the best thing out there, and it's cool that it helps disabled people or people going through surgery/an injury.)
I remember the little old lady next door warning me before I went to Europe when I was 12: "Bring your own toilet paper! The toilet paper over there is like sand paper! It's awful!" XD
Does that really have to do with recycled paper though? South America has rough paper and they're mostly not eco friendly. XD China's the same. It's just cheaper to make and easier to mass produce...



and I just want to point out that no nation stays up at night to think about handkerchiefs, bidets, or hygiene unless they were a nation of people like Berserk. And I doubt anyone is seriously freaked out by poop or snot (unless they had a phobia). These exaggerations are kind of silly.
 

Berserk

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PE wrote:
What are you talking about, Americans used to use handkerchiefs all the time, especially men.
Yeah, but hardly any Americans under the age of 60 have ever used a handkerchief in their life, so it's not really a matter of "going back" to it. For this generation it's something new.
PE wrote:
I think a way to bring it back is to emphasize how eco-friendly it is, since that's pretty hot in the market and people buy into that. But there's the whole "ew" factor now because seriously, sticking your face in snot all the time is not appealing. I understand wiping your sweat off but the snot thing is gross.
Yeah, but as we've seen here the eco-friendly factor won't resonate enough with most people. Hence the appeal to Hello Kitty XD. And you don't "stick your face in snot" when you use a handkerchief! This is the big misconception that needs to be overcome.

I took some pictures to demonstrate how many fresh folds there are in a handkerchief.

This is where the non-saturation I was talking about comes into play. The snot never soaks through to the other side, so each fold is fresh and clean until you use it. The way I folded that one (which was pretty hastily), I counted 6 folds, 4 pockets, and the centerfold. That's 11 fresh places to blow your nose. And none of it soaks through, so your pocket is going to stay clean and dry.
PE wrote:
And I think if you want people to use bidets, you'd have to show them that they NEED it somehow because no one's going to buy the combo or a separate bidet since people don't have that kind of money or space. You'd have to do all the plumbing work too or make sure it's near an outlet.
Those $40 attachments are electricity-free, so they don't need an outlet. The water hookup is simple enough that most people who know their way around a toolbox can do it themselves (or for you). If you hired a plumber, it would probably take them 10-15 minutes (but they might still charge you for the full hour lol).

I'm not going to be a huge advocate for those attachments until I try one myself, but they seem promising. I don't think $40 is too much considering how much we spend on toilet paper. Even if you still use toilet paper, it should at least cut down on your usage by 50% if not more. I think that, let alone the increased cleanliness of using a bidet, makes it a good investment.
PE wrote:
Does that really have to do with recycled paper though? South America has rough paper and they're mostly not eco friendly. XD China's the same. It's just cheaper to make and easier to mass produce...
Not all rough TP is recycled, yeah. But I read somewhere that Europe uses more recycled TP than the U.S. I think partly because they don't have such large forested areas to harvest from. That's probably also why Japan has gone the way of the bidet. They obviously don't have large enough forests to produce toilet paper for their country and they probably don't see the point in importing it from overseas when they can just use the bidet instead.

Also, I just came across this article from The Art of Manliness: Why Every Man Should Carry a Handkerchief ::meev::
The Art of Manliness wrote:
There is an inverse relationship between the handkerchief’s popularity and the rise of our germa-phobe culture. A society that sprays the air with disinfectant to rid it of those pesky bacterium and totes hand sanitizer on key chains looks eschew at the reusable tissue. I think hankie ignorance is partly to blame. Having not grown up around handkerchief-carrying men, it seems some people are under the impression that a hankie is used over and over again, all week long. But a man should take a clean handkerchief each day, and launder them weekly. It should go without saying that when offering a lady your handkerchief, it should always be an unused, clean one. You should probably tell her that when you hand it over, as to allay any fears she might have about what’s lurking in its folds.
And here's a link to some artsy looking hankies.

I'm a dork, I know ::kisaki::
 

faith

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MissUMana wrote:
@faith: if you know Frédéric Beigbeder, you certainly know what a perfectly exasperating man he is, and how he loves nothing like provoking people, but he is also an intelligent bloke, who likes to hide just how learned he is. Unlike most of his peers though, he is not ashamed of being French, and the interview I was referring to was about the French being the best lovers in the world, ahahahah! And of course it had to be him they chose to be ridiculously sure the French were the best, gratifying the Germans with a "too athletic", the Americans with a "too hygienic", the Spanish "too macho", the Italians "too talkative", etc, etc... But of course as always he's not really taking himself too seriously, so it's very funny.

I don't think the French at large know about the Americans being obsessed with hygiene. They know they care about it, but they'd really laugh (like me) reading your considerations about toilet paper, wipes, tissues versus handkerchiefs, bidets versus toilets, etc, etc. We honestly don't stay awake at night thinking about such things, but it's just a cultural difference, and no offense meant.

Ah, ok, got it!
So he wasn't really saying Americans were too hygenic, he was just using everyone else to say French men are out-of-shape, dirty, feminine, and not so romantic lol
Unless I still just don't get french humor.

Anyhow, I think the cultural factor here is more the go green movement, no?
Almost everyone in my previous US company had that "Consider the environment before printing this email" footer on their emails.
 

PureElegance

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Berserk wrote:
Yeah, but hardly any Americans under the age of 60 have ever used a handkerchief in their life, so it's not really a matter of "going back" to it. For this generation it's something new.
I donno it looks like a lot of people still use handkerchiefs now but it's just not a big deal like it was back then. So the people who totally used hankies are 60 now so that means it went out of style in like the 1950s - 60s. I wouldn't call it THAT long ago, things do make a comeback.

And you don't "stick your face in snot" when you use a handkerchief! This is the big misconception that needs to be overcome.
I took some pictures to demonstrate how many fresh folds there are in a handkerchief.
I know it dries up, but just the THOUGHT that I already put snot, cough stuff, sweat in there and it's all there dried up so I guess it's OK to put my face back near it, ew no.

I think if there had been advertisements on TV on the greatness of handkerchiefs then we'd be more open to the idea, but the eco-friendly and hygienic part just hasn't been exposed enough.

Those $40 attachments are electricity-free, so they don't need an outlet. The water hookup is simple enough that most people who know their way around a toolbox can do it themselves (or for you). If you hired a plumber, it would probably take them 10-15 minutes (but they might still charge you for the full hour lol).
I wasn't talking about the attachments, but the actual bidets. I don't think you'd need a plumber for the attachments or what's the point.

I'm not going to be a huge advocate for those attachments until I try one myself, but they seem promising. I don't think $40 is too much considering how much we spend on toilet paper.
Why would it decrease the usage though? I mean, you're just making yourself wet (again) and so now you need something to dry off. It's just the same as if you were peeing and had to dry yourself off. Now you're just cleaner down there, but you're still going to use the same amount of toilet paper (since there's no air dryer and you're not just going to sit there and dry off unless you have the time). I think the amount you use is your choice, no one's forcing you to use 4-6 squares XD

I donno, maybe you should just get one already and tell us honestly how many pieces of toilet paper you use XD

Wait, I HAD A BIDET I SHOULD KNOW. Looking back I don't remember being amazed by it (since I'm not missing it), but I don't think I changed my toilet paper usage just because of it and I still used it to dry myself off. I've only started using less lately (like last year) because I thought I was too excessive.
Baby wipes (or whatever they're called) also feel great XD
Also, I just came across this article from The Art of Manliness: Why Every Man Should Carry a Handkerchief ::meev::
The Art of Manliness wrote:
It should go without saying that when offering a lady your handkerchief, it should always be an unused, clean one. You should probably tell her that when you hand it over, as to allay any fears she might have about what’s lurking in its folds.
That's the only good use for hankies, really.
I saw that article a few days ago and wondered if I should link you to it SINCE IT'S SO UNTRUE~

And here's a link to some artsy looking hankies.

I'm a dork, I know ::kisaki::
I'd rather use a super ugly one than those, I'd hate to get something nice so dirty and GROSS~ OMG~ :P :P :P

yes you are a dork but...


power.jpg
 

MissUMana

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Berserk wrote:
I remember the little old lady next door warning me before I went to Europe when I was 12: "Bring your own toilet paper! The toilet paper over there is like sand paper! It's awful!" XD

It makes you wonder how the Europeans have survived all these years with their scratchy, recycled TP and bidets. You're much tougher than we are :roll:

The little old lady next door was certainly referring to how things were in the day, but it's vastly different now. Of course you'll find cheap toilet paper on trains, or perhaps in cheap hotels, cafés and restaurants, but we use much softer TP at home.

Just something so you can all have nightmares now, ahahahah!
When I was a kid, that is in the 60's, you would still find a lot of "cabins at the far end of the garden" and the TP was newspaper paper! And I'm not even talking about the flies that would greet you in summer, ahahahah! We have come a long way, but in those days toilets and bathrooms were not part of all homes, especially in the country. But my grandmother lived in a city and there was no bathroom, and only shared toilets on the landing!!! No central heating either. ::erm::

Btw, I use both handkerchiefs and tissues, and so does my daughter.

Oh, and why not use toilet paper and finish off with a baby wipe? Sounds sensible to me, though wipes are nearly indestructible and therefore not eco-friendly AT ALL!
 

Iskanderia

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They sell flushable wipes next to the toilet paper now and everyone needs be using them because when you wipe with toilet paper until you think you're totally clean and then use a wipe afterwards, you realize that the paper didn't actually pick up everything and all these years you've been walking around with poopy butt and you didn't even know it.

It's terrifying.
 

flowersofnight

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MissUMana

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Honestly I have never been able to read Rabelais, not only because the language is very old and tedious, but because it is all very gross. Not my cup of tea. Perhaps I am mistaken but I always thought it was intended for men only.
 

Iskanderia

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Quoting Realtalk About Bathroom Hygiene aka The Gospel According to Tiffany for a new page:

Iskanderia wrote:
They sell flushable wipes next to the toilet paper now and everyone needs be using them because when you wipe with toilet paper until you think you're totally clean and then use a wipe afterwards, you realize that the paper didn't actually pick up everything and all these years you've been walking around with poopy butt and you didn't even know it.

It's terrifying.
 

Berserk

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Urgent PSA on "flushable" wipes ::meev::

If you've been using them without a problem, then maybe they're fine for sewer systems. I definitely wouldn't use them if you have a septic system though.

Also, I think a bidet would give you a comparable level of cleanliness! And after an initial investment, it's free. I'm still a cheerleader for bidets XD

@MissUMana: I'm imagining the ink rubbing off from using newspaper as wipes :shock:
PE wrote:
I donno, maybe you should just get one already and tell us honestly how many pieces of toilet paper you use XD
Oh, don't worry. I will! It's totally not TMI or anything ::meev::

I'm going to have to conduct some trial evaluations and report my findings. I'll test recycled 1-ply TP, quilted 2-ply TP, and a TP/"flushable" wipes combo; then I'll do them all over, but using the bidet first; and lastly I'll use just the bidet and the air-dry method (hopefully the bidet will wash thoroughly enough for that to not be disgusting XD).

I'll probably be buying the bidet attachment sometime over summer break.
 
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