Problem with M+A

Geisha

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Misato wrote:
This. I'm not saying that I don't want to support Mana, but even 500yens for something that I can't understand doesn't worth for me, you understand? Mana is pretty rich, I don't think that he really NEEDS that money support
Misato wrote:
Really, if support an artist only means give him money, we all support him TOO MUCH. We pay all that money for MmmM clothes, we buy the CDs and DVDs, etc.
Wow. If that's your view I totally don't get why you ever wanted to join M+A. Or why you're pissed that the Madousho, which you say you wouldn't be interested in even if you could read it, is now electronic instead of paper. How do you think artists finance their art? That it just miraculously materialises by itself? Music is a business. You buy their CDs, merchandise, whatever and by doing so give them the money they need to produce their next CD, tour etc. At least that's how it works for small companies like Midi:Nette.

Misato wrote:
(he don't came to Brazil because he wanted people to pay a fortune and his first class flight when XJapan, Versailles and Kaya came here).
You really should try to find out more about Mana because you seem to have a totally warped idea of his circumstances. Especially compared to people like X Japan and Versailles.
 

faith

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Normally I don't stick up for anyone or get involved in these types of conversations, but this actually concerns me...your comment about the flight. Were you involved in setting up the tours? Did he tell you this firsthand? Are you sure that's the real reason why? I'm assuming he didn't, I dunno. Go on Mixi and post how he's mad that more countries aren't paying for his First Class tickets cause there are too many GIRLS in Economy class, did he? (heehee)


PS. If he and the band were rich then I don't think my friend would have met one of the ex members working in 711 (she's legit). And it's not because Mana doesn't pay his band members so let's have none of that this time around. :lol:
Also, he probably wouldn't have closed down the Moi Meme Moitie stores years back.
 

Wandering_Fox

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I'm amazed that Mana can perform at all outside of Japan sometimes, what with all the other members having other music projects going on at the same time that require rehearsals, live shows, ect. Hayato had to leave Seattle a day before the rest of the band because of prior musical engagements. Anyway, most bands make their real money off ticket sales rather then merchandise, and Moi dix Mois doesn't really do all that many live shows, not to mention there is a very small percentage of people in Japan who actually know who Moi dix Mois is, let alone are actually hardcore fans.
 

Astral Romance

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Misato wrote:
This. I'm not saying that I don't want to support Mana, but even 500yens for something that I can't understand doesn't worth for me, you understand? Mana is pretty rich, I don't think that he really NEEDS that money support (he don't came to Brazil because he wanted people to pay a fortune and his first class flight when XJapan, Versailles and Kaya came here).

Edit: Really, if support an artist only means give him money, we all support him TOO MUCH. We pay all that money for MmmM clothes, we buy the CDs and DVDs, etc.

Mana loves money. Maybe he loves money even too much. And i also think he is pretty much rich. of course, maybe he doesn't own a penthouse on a sea shore but still.. he really does have enough money to live. We are supporting him with money too much. Of course, supporting a musician you like is important but now it seems that he thinks his fans exist ONLY to support him without even getting something back. I know people will say i come back to this forum to tell them my opinion nobody cares about. But it is just this forum. Just look around on FB or other sites and you will see how many people feel the same way as i do, they don't support him anymore because of all the bad things that happened with his FC in the past.

And is it true about the first class tickets? lol. i believe. Mana seems to be that kind of person.
 

voixdinferno

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^OMG ::batsu::

:lol: I remember when mana request a limousine when they went to tour in South America in 2010 :p
 

Garnet in the Eden

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Maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, but I've never gotten the impression that "he thinks his fans exist ONLY to support him without even getting something back". He does the whole fanclub subscription thing because there's a market for it. It's not like he has a giant "donate 2 my paypal account" button on his website. He has the type of fans who like to buy and read that stuff, and he evidently likes to make it available. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The single questionable thing that I can get is not sorting out the fanclub... but that's it.

And even considering that, it's not like I'm going to "stop supporting him" over those things. Aren't we all here for the music? I'll stop supporting him when I stop liking his albums, I guess.
 

Geisha

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Astral Romance wrote:
Mana loves money. Maybe he loves money even too much. And i also think he is pretty much rich. of course, maybe he doesn't own a penthouse on a sea shore but still.. he really does have enough money to live. We are supporting him with money too much. Of course, supporting a musician you like is important but now it seems that he thinks his fans exist ONLY to support him without even getting something back.

And is it true about the first class tickets? lol. i believe. Mana seems to be that kind of person.
Sure. That's why he releases all his CDs in A, B, C and D type versions that you have to all buy in order to get a super exclusive bonus extra, produces mountains of new merchandise every time he releases something, sells lots of crappy cheki at his concerts in Japan and at concerts abroad "VIP upgrades" for €80 on top of the concert ticket. Oh wait, he doesn't actually do any of this, even though it's pretty much standard for Jrock bands. Now what's wrong with this picture? ::kisaki::

Just look around on FB or other sites and you will see how many people feel the same way as i do, they don't support him anymore because of all the bad things that happened with his FC in the past.
You keep talking like people paying and not getting anything back was the norm. It wasn't. Yes, they should have sorted out the problems earlier or owned up to them once they realised they couldn't sort them out. But for most people, those problems consisted of getting the translations (very) late and having to email the FC repeatedly to get a ticket confirmation. They still got the FC mags and tickets and, eventually, most of the translations. As I sit here, I'm missing a handful of translations, that's all.
 

Iskanderia

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Garnet in the Eden wrote:
Maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, but I've never gotten the impression that "he thinks his fans exist ONLY to support him without even getting something back". He does the whole fanclub subscription thing because there's a market for it. It's not like he has a giant "donate 2 my paypal account" button on his website. He has the type of fans who like to buy and read that stuff, and he evidently likes to make it available. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The single questionable thing that I can get is not sorting out the fanclub... but that's it.

Yeah, I don't get why people are acting like they are being forced to give Mana money or something. If you don't want to buy the clothes, CDs/DVDs, Madoushos or whatever else, you don't have to. I do think it was bad business for him to not make sure the fanclub was being run properly and that people were getting what they paid for, but I can't blame the guy for making merchandise available to those who do want to pay for it.

Misato wrote:
This. I'm not saying that I don't want to support Mana, but even 500yens for something that I can't understand doesn't worth for me, you understand? Mana is pretty rich, I don't think that he really NEEDS that money support (he don't came to Brazil because he wanted people to pay a fortune and his first class flight when XJapan, Versailles and Kaya came here).

Edit: Really, if support an artist only means give him money, we all support him TOO MUCH. We pay all that money for MmmM clothes, we buy the CDs and DVDs, etc.

Okay, this is where our view on it differs. There's no way a dude in a indie band, running a tiny indie label in Japan is "pretty rich." Even if he is though, it doesn't matter. He is running a business and he is entitled to make as much money as he can from that business, provided he follows ethical business practices. Whether or not he has enough money to live on and doesn't technically "need" any more is irrelevant. (I understand that your being from a pretty socialist country might make it difficult for you to be able to see it that way though.)
 

flowersofnight

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Astral Romance wrote:
but still.. he really does have enough money to live.
DAMN HIM, this is the final straw! I want him begging for his breakfast in the street!! ::meev::

I just want to point out that nothing Mana's ever sold has been overpriced, and that includes Moitie clothes and the fanclub when it was working properly. What do you want from the man?
 

Wandering_Fox

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I'm trying to remember the last time I bought something from Mana that I didn't want, just so I could send him money and support him... Nope, can't think of a single time... I never joined the fan club but that's not because I didn't want to support him, it's just I didn't care about the pictures as much as the music. And if you think Moi dix Mois was popular on FB, just search for EXILE. And as far as I know, they've never been to America. Mustard even has more likes than Moi dix Mois and it's a condiment... (Please don't kill me, people who are fans of mustard!!!)
 

Berserk

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@flowers: Well, the Moitié stuff may not be more expensive than what's typical for Lolita fashion, but I would say that the going rate for Lolita stuff is a bit overpriced. I mean, the necklaces are like $150 for a couple ounces of brass XD

But in general, yeah. I agree.

Astral wrote:
And is it true about the first class tickets? lol. i believe. Mana seems to be that kind of person.
Why would you believe that? Do you always think the worst of people? I think your comments say a lot more about you than they do Mana.
 

Iskanderia

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flowersofnight wrote:
Astral Romance wrote:
but still.. he really does have enough money to live.
DAMN HIM, this is the final straw! I want him begging for his breakfast in the street!! ::meev::

I just want to point out that nothing Mana's ever sold has been overpriced, and that includes Moitie clothes and the fanclub when it was working properly. What do you want from the man?

:lol:

Seriously though, that kind of thinking makes me crazy. Apparently, people are only allowed to make enough money to survive and no more. So childish.


His clothing seems pretty pricey to me but I'm kind of a cheapskate. The dresses I saw up close for the first time this weekend did appear to be of a good quality - maybe not $300 worth of quality, but whatever. Again, it's his prerogative - he can charge whatever he wants for merchandise. No one is being forced to buy it.
 

Martine

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Geisha wrote:
Music is a business.
Unfortunately, yes

Astral Romance wrote:
Mana loves money. Maybe he loves money even too much. And i also think he is pretty much rich. of course, maybe he doesn't own a penthouse on a sea shore but still.. he really does have enough money to live.
I am always surprised and a litlle amused of how others assess our richness only going by the appearance or social origins. I had a lot of fun yesterday when I received a request of help to create a Swiss school in Brussels only on basis of my dad's name :lol: I wouldn't even have had enough money to go to Seattle ... She knocked at the wrong door. We don't know how rich or not Mana is. And we don't have to. It's not our business. Geisha is right. Even if he is very rich, music is a business. Mana and Midi:Nette propose stuffs (CD, DVD, clothes, collectibles, madoushos etc) and it's our own choice to buy them or not. It's not support. It's trading. It's normal he tries to make money. Everyone does.

voixdinferno wrote:
Laughing I remember when mana request a limousine when they went to tour in South America in 2010 :p
He he he :lol:
Why not after all ? I had one for my wedding...
Between us, the driver was a friend ;)
 

Astral Romance

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Berserk wrote:
Why would you believe that? Do you always think the worst of people? I think your comments say a lot more about you than they do Mana.

oh common guys, this does not happen in other fanclubs and in other fandom. I don't know about Japanese bands but everywhere else in the world it doesn't happen. It seems you don't want to see the truth. I am amazed how everytime you can't accept opinion about him that is different than yours. And you don't want to see that only a few fans of him are left because of all the stuff happening to his FC and so.

No, i don't think all the worst of people everytime. But i just see the things some of you don't want to see or maybe you see but don't want to accept. And i am not the only one who thinks like that.

I know music industry is a bussiness but Mana just goes too far. I don't know any other artist that would sell his pics in such a ridiculous way. Maybe other artists should make fees for their facebook or twitter? Music is a bussiness so why not? Don't you see he just sells his pictures, his so called Mon Amour doesn't have any other functions now.
 

Xanadu

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I also don't see why people would actually say that other fans give him "too much money" - as long as they didn't rob a bank or did anything like that to obtain that money, they can do whatever they want with it.

In the end, all Mana (and every other artist) do is to offer you something, and you decide wether you take it or leave it. I personally always considered Mana's pricing for CDs fair; and he is even really holding back on publishing a ton of singles before each release.

So basically, you can get what matters to most fans (or should matter to them), the music, for a totally fair price. If you want anything else though, you have to pay for it.
Nobody forces you. If you don't agree with the price for a Madusho, simply don't buy it, where's the problem?

A band, even an independant band, has to gain money not only for themselves, but also for the people working for and with them. (Asagi gave a nice listing of people involved with the production of Tightrope once). So wanting to make money with your -job- doesn't automatically make you a bad person.
 

Geisha

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Astral Romance wrote:
I know music industry is a bussiness but Mana just goes too far. I don't know any other artist that would sell his pics in such a ridiculous way. Maybe other artists should make fees for their facebook or twitter? Music is a bussiness so why not? Don't you see he just sells his pictures, his so called Mon Amour doesn't have any other functions now.
Since he doesn't actually "sell his pics", are you referring to the digital Madousho? Then you obviously don't know much about the music business in Japan, otherwise you'd know that paid subscription blogs and cellphone websites with exclusive content are totally normal there. Many, many artists have them, e.g. Versailles, and many offer far less content than the digital Madousho (they're basically subscription versions of the stuff you see on Ameba). Not to mention photo sets and cheki, which even the tiniest indie bands sell at their concerts, but Mana doesn't.

It seems you don't want to see the truth. I am amazed how everytime you can't accept opinion about him that is different than yours. And you don't want to see that only a few fans of him are left because of all the stuff happening to his FC and so.
No. It's you, and people like you, who are so blinded by their personal grudge that they'd rather believe ridiculous rumours (e.g. the first class ticket) that fit their distorted view than face facts that may contradict it, who can't see things in perspective. What people here have explained to you about the music business isn't personal opinion, it's economic reality. I don't doubt that there are many "fans" like you, but that doesn't mean that they're right.
 

Iskanderia

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@Astral Romance: I was one of the first people to criticize Mana for shoddily running his business when there were problems with the fanclub and other merchandise and I gave people crap for continuing to send him money when they knew they might not receive anything in return for it, so for me it's not a matter of blindly following him. What I don't understand though is why you have such a problem with him trying to make a living. I think the digital Madoushos sound a little cheesy but as long as people are getting what they have voluntarily paid for, what's the problem? I doubt it will make him a rich man but even if it did, so what? If you had a talent that allowed you to make a good life for yourself, would you not use it to do so?
 

MissUMana

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Is Astral Romance on a mission to destroy Mana? Why is she SO utterly pissed off that we like him, and think he is an honest man, except for the FC that he should have closed MUCH earlier.

All I can add to what has been said is that when he last came to Paris in 2007, the concert tickets were surprisingly cheap, only 27.50€! And the merchandise was certainly not over-priced either.

I live in what is seen as a Socialist country, still I have no problem whatsoever with Mana making money. And I also believe he had no choice but launch Kanon Wakeshima's career, because he lost A LOT of money on his 2007 European Tour.
 

MissUMana

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If I remember well, 3 out of the 5 German concerts were cancelled. I guess there might have been some kind of insurance to cover a part of the loss, but since the tickets must have been rather cheap everywhere, and the tour must have cost a fortune, I always thought he nearly went bankrupt and had to accept Sony's offer. I'm not saying he disliked working for Kanon or anything, I'm just saying he badly needed the money at the time.
 
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