Corny question about Mana

Discussion in '-main-' started by heutre, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 407
    Posted: Mon Oct 8, 2018 5:49 am

    I'm sure this question has been asked countless times before, but I didn't find an up to date answer on my research. Has Mana talked in direct terms as to what gender they identify as ? Also do we have any sort of history about what people they have been involved with romantically ? I'm aware it's pretty intrusive but I spent most of my years as a fan completely dehumanising them and dissociating them from any sort of.. human feeling so now that I've grown older I'm kinda curious about if they made any official statement. I don't think I know of any other artist of the same era that seems to have lived such a genderless life, if that makes sense.

    I don't think I can view them as just a homosexual male, and that's with the hypothesis that Mana is actually attracted to men.

    I don't want this to be a disrespectful topic, I'm just genuinely curious about what we know about this part of Mana's life.

    Just read this.. But I'm not too sure it's a reliable source.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    Nimbus likes this.
    #1
  2. sanctum -member- -member-

    sanctum
    Joined: 10 Mar 2005
    Posts: 1352
    Posted: Mon Oct 8, 2018 6:23 am

    Last I remember Mana said he is just Mana.

    But with anything he says and does you need to decide whether it is the person or the 'Mana' facade that he has constructed.
     
    heutre likes this.
    #2
  3. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 407
    Posted: Mon Oct 8, 2018 6:31 am

    sanctum wrote:
    Thanks for the answer !

    I kind of have my theory but it might be straight up projection so I'm really curious about what Mana has said about the topic so far !
     
    #3
  4. MeikyuuNoTobira -member- -member-

    MeikyuuNoTobira
    Joined: 30 Jan 2018
    Posts: 11
    Location: Germany
    Posted: Mon Oct 8, 2018 7:34 am

    heutre wrote:
    Personally it never even crossed my mind that he might be homosexual. I just always assumed that he was straight, as if this was the default setting people come with.

    There was an interview years back, in which said he got upset at people automatically assuming that men who crossdress are homosexual. So that might have been where I've got the impression from. But as far as I am aware he could be anything/like anyone.
     
    heutre and sanctum like this.
    #4
  5. etherealspirits -dead scape- dead scape

    etherealspirits
    Joined: 28 May 2016
    Posts: 707
    Location: Mana-sama's School of Elegance and Refinement
    Posted: Mon Oct 8, 2018 11:18 am

    Mana is Mana. Mana has said all the "roles" Mana has performed as are Mana. It's all Mana. Male and female.

    (I know all this because I was the one who asked about it in that WunderWelt q and a. Color me shocked when Mana started writing about it on Twitter. It came out of what I read David Bowie said, which is why I asked in the first place. David Bowie said he has to assume a role, otherwise he could never get on stage. It was a really good discussion on Twitter and it seemed Mana was very happy about it and how people reacted there.)

    As for relationships and all the rest, pretty much everything online that people claim is made up. Mana has never said anything except saying Mana had a girlfriend in the past. I personally feel that's Mana's business and not everyone else's if Mana doesn't want to talk about it. Given that there are fans that do crazy things, sometimes it's out of protection of who they are with.

    Although I do understand why people would be curious about it.

    The interview about people assuming about VK guys who wear feminine clothing, it was an interview in Europe and it sounded like Mana had said it even before that.

    Oh! I can write about one relationship. Mana loves the fans. It is something that brings bliss, happiness, to meet them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    #5
  6. Witchka -current- -current-

    Witchka
    Joined: 28 Jun 2007
    Posts: 367
    Location: In space, Bret, in space.
    Posted: Mon Oct 8, 2018 4:55 pm

    Over time I honestly just assumed Mana was ace/aro (since in past interviews he said he felt like he was incapable of feeling love, like a "doll"), but there's very little - if anything - we know about the man behind Mana. I'm just going to agree that Mana is Mana; a stage persona with an air of both masculine and feminine beauty and mystery that cannot be pigeon-holed. Gender is merely a man-made spectrum anyway...
     
    heutre and etherealspirits like this.
    #6
  7. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 407
    Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:57 am

    Thanks for your reponses everyone ! I like how we all have our own conception of who Mana is.
     
    #7
  8. lilcyclopchild -member- -member-

    lilcyclopchild
    Joined: 24 May 2012
    Posts: 52
    Location: GlucosseGalaxy
    Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:41 am

    I’ve always been curious on how different “drag” culture is in japan. We always refer them as males and also the only one who ever made an official Statement about sexual orientation was Kaya saying he was bisexual. I’ve always thought about Mana as Straight when it comes to sexual orientation and also there was rumors back in time saying he dated Lucifer Luscious Violenoue and as it was just a fan made up thing could you think of a better couple! Lol
    After all i think gender and sexual orientations are not a thing to Mana, he is just doing his thing stealing our money and sleeping in a coffin
     
    heutre likes this.
    #8
  9. mija -member- -member-

    mija
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 297
    Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:54 pm

    LLV - haven't heard about her in awhile!!
     
    snailfreak and MorganIvy like this.
    #9
  10. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 407
    Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:58 am

    lilcyclopchild wrote:
    That's a really interesting point I never thought about ! :)
     
    snailfreak likes this.
    #10
  11. Cantavanda -member- -member-

    Cantavanda
    Joined: 08 Jan 2017
    Posts: 144
    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:21 pm

    lol
     
    voixdinferno and heutre like this.
    #11
  12. snailfreak -current- -current-

    snailfreak
    Joined: 17 Mar 2007
    Posts: 376
    Location: where After Image meets Amadeus
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:46 am

    I'm glad to see people posting openly about this! I've been on this forum since I was a teenager, and back then wanted to ask this sort of question. It's pretty typical that 'gender-bendy' individuals (for lack of a better word) inspire curiosity about their gender and sexuality. I find the curiosity to be understandable, certainly!

    With regards to Mana's sexuality, I speculated about it as a teenager quite a bit because I found it to be personally encouraging to myself to imagine that he might be somehow, in some way, different. Of course, I was young and gay, and projecting my own feelings regarding myself onto him (I was in search for an idol to 'look up to'). The fact that I was projecting proves nothing in any direction about Mana's sexuality, and is solely a remark on my childhood perspectives as an individual. Anyway, now that I'm an adult, I think differently. I'm not projecting and closeted anymore, and am quite happy!! These days I think to myself, with regards to Mana's sexuality, 'I'll never know, we'll never know'. He could be anything. He legitimately could be straight, and I don't say that to 'be fair', I say that because it's entirely possible. Alternatively, he could be some other sexuality as well, and I remind myself to keep in mind the politics surrounding homosexuality and such in Japan throughout the time span of Mana's life, during the present day, etc. Or maybe, even, Mana doesn't ascribe to a specific label or concrete, succinct sexuality at all. This seems to be a real possiblity. Those doll remarks of his are particularly intriguing when it comes to that. All we know for certain though is that we're outsiders to a very private person's life. I for one, somehow???, have grown to enjoy the mystery of it all. At this point in my life, I prefer ambiguity to a definitive answer. I'm not sure why, hahaha, but I genuinely enjoy it! He's very interesting that way.

    Now as for Mana's gender, I do know Mana has spoken about that! Perhaps this can help with your original question, OP? Here's the quote that I'm thinking about:

    "It's absolutely not the case that I want to become a woman...it's a matter of personality...although I was born a man and am recognized by society as a man...I know there is also a woman inside me who transcends the time (jidai wo koete)...and I want to recognize the woman that is also inside of me"

    Funnily enough, this English translation of Mana's quote is from a book on male homosexuality in Japan (Male Homosexuality in Modern Japan: Cultural Myths and Social Realities). The chapter the quote is from pertains more to the women's media discourse on homosexuality and the 'beautiful men' ideal. The quote was translated into English by the author, not by myself. The quote is cited as being from a March 1999 Da Vinchi article. The author also mentions that in the same article Mana remarked on "his interest in Virginia Woolf's novel Orlando about an Elizabethan courtier who changes gender as s/he passes through time." So yeah, hope this illuminates some of this gender stuff for you, OP! Sounds as if the way Mana chose to express himself publicly at that point in time is: he doesn't ascribe to a transgender identity, that he doesn't distance himself from being born a man, and that he has a very interesting and personal perspective of his ~ womanly side ~. So interesting how he puts it as a 'matter of personality', and a woman inside him. I'd like to invoke sanctum's thoughtful comment about Mana the private individual and Mana the public persona here, though. That's always something to keep in mind.

    Also, I can't believe I'm on Scape posting about Mana's sexuality and gender on Christmas. I say this with no sarcasm or mockery-- what a world! Good stuff! :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    MorganIvy and Witchka like this.
    #12
  13. faith -tea party- -tea party-

    faith
    Joined: 05 Aug 2004
    Posts: 5008
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:52 am

    yes, don't forget that these are stage personas.
    On his twitter he has fairly regularly said things like, "I AM a man, after all"
    and made statements about how he perceives women that sound like typical man stuff lol
    He may recognize the duality of everyone, or the fluidity of gender, but I don't think he really considers himself anything but a man.

    As for his sexuality, no clue, not my business, and we couldn't believe what he says anyway.
    Perfect example is actually Kaya saying he's bi. Again, stage persona, not real life.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    MorganIvy and flowersofnight like this.
    #13
  14. etherealspirits -dead scape- dead scape

    etherealspirits
    Joined: 28 May 2016
    Posts: 707
    Location: Mana-sama's School of Elegance and Refinement
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:22 am

    faith wrote:
    Actually, Mana has answered the question about the various personas he is on stage and elsewhere. And Mana has said that they are all him, it's not acting. He tweeted about this. Mana has said that he considers that he is both masculine and feminine. This also was on Twitter. And in other places. And that Mana is very happy that people accept him as this. Mana identifies as both male and female. This is about how Mana sees Mana as a person. Mana is Mana.

    Funny that this is my 666th post. And I previously answered this question in a post above this one.

    (I remember once or twice Mana has accidentally used "boku" on Twitter and then was "why did I do that?")
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    #14
  15. Cae -member- -member-

    Cae
    Joined: 19 Apr 2018
    Posts: 106
    Location: The Wired
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:07 am

    etherealspirits wrote:
    「僕っ子」much lol > . <
     
    #15
  16. faith -tea party- -tea party-

    faith
    Joined: 05 Aug 2004
    Posts: 5008
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:48 am

    I really don't see why anything you said would negate my post, nor feel the need to argue my point.
    The idea of gender construction is way too heavy for a vis kei forum anyway.

    But it would make him happy that you like him so much :)
     
    MorganIvy likes this.
    #16
  17. snailfreak -current- -current-

    snailfreak
    Joined: 17 Mar 2007
    Posts: 376
    Location: where After Image meets Amadeus
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:54 am

    This is all so interesting! Especially this repeated 'I am a man after all', but then also the whole "why did I do that" about using boku thing (unless that was just a joke I took too literally hahhaha)! He has many sides it seems, hahaha. I'm learning all kinds of new details. Also, I agree that in the past I've read things here and there Mana has said about women that seem quite 'typical'. I don't say that to insinuate any particular conclusion about his gender, just saying that I remember reading stuff and going 'wow typical', hahahaha!

    I would be curious to know more about your thoughts, Faith, when you say it's heavy to discuss gender on a visual kei forum! Do you mean things can get easily heated, or that it's not relevant or too big for the forum or something? I strongly agree with the former, but not so much the latter. Genuinely curious for your thoughts. Again, I'm very happy this thread is happening because I've always wondered why there aren't more discussions about this kind of thing on Scape because, in my opinion, it seems fitting to discuss visual kei's relationship with gender with it being such an interesting aspect of the subgenre. Perhaps there've been issues in the past on this forum, or other forums, when it comes to talking about these things that I'm not aware of? I would be interested in knowing more about that if that's the case. Intriguing gender presentation, the social construction of gender, the line between public/private expressions of gender, seem to me to be such interesting, if not elemental parts of visual kei! Ideally, I wish it all could be more frequently and pleasantly discussed. While this certainly isn't the case for everybody, for some people all the striking gender presentation, the theatrical ambiguity, image-making, all of those aspects of visual kei are a part of why they enjoy visual kei. Again, not the case for everybody, but I know for myself at least that was a big draw.

    Anyway, I do agree that because the personal nature of gender and sexuality stuff, the differing politics surrounding it etc, discussions on it have the potential to get tense or maybe heavy, as you put it. Thankfully this thread seems quite friendly and informative, and is a genuine discussion rather than warfare which I'm happy to see! I've kind of been waiting years for this, hahaha! I don't know many people who know visual kei exists so the chances to talk about this SUPER interesting aspect of visual kei are few and far between :)


    EDIT: OH, and I have a question! I've seen comments about Kaya's bi statement on Scape for a few years now, talking about how that can't be the reality of his sexuality (I guess saying that he's not bi, he's gay?) I was curious to know what it is that prompts those thoughts! Is there some kind of certainty about Kaya's sexuality off stage or some other statement he has made I'm not aware of? I always wondered what people meant by that whenever they've mentioned it. I definitely would like to know!

    EDIT 2: Sorry my posts are always so long hahahaha...but I have more questions!! My question's regarding:

    Cae wrote:
    What's the significance of that? I'm super curious to learn about what that means and the significance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    heutre and Witchka like this.
    #17
  18. Cae -member- -member-

    Cae
    Joined: 19 Apr 2018
    Posts: 106
    Location: The Wired
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:33 pm

    snailfreak wrote:
    Hiya~~~ No problem!

    Let's begin with a basic breakdown of the term 'cos I'm techinal like that wwwww (forgive me if you already know this):

    "Boku・僕" = One of many ways to refer to oneself; carries a distinct scent of masculinity and/or childish sentiment

    "Ko・子" = In short, this refers to a person.

    "Bokukko-僕っ子" is a slang term that refers to people, particularly women, who use the "boku・僕" choice of pronoun (a traditionally male pronoun).

    My jest was that if Mana was using "Boku" he could be instictively referring to his masculinity (and subsequently wondering why he did that) as pointed out by Ethereal Cyan, or Mana could be a "bokukko" a feminine energy that uses the "Boku" pronoun.
    All in all it was just a play on words(^。^)y-.。o○

    who's for tea?  ^^) _旦~~  ( ^^) _U~~ 
     
    #18
  19. snailfreak -current- -current-

    snailfreak
    Joined: 17 Mar 2007
    Posts: 376
    Location: where After Image meets Amadeus
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:37 pm

    !!!!!!!!

    Ohhhh, now I understand! I didn't know all of that, so thank you for the detailed explanation. Neat!
     
    Cae likes this.
    #19
  20. ghostpepper -member- -member-

    ghostpepper
    Joined: 12 Jul 2017
    Posts: 48
    Location: Tokyo
    Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:40 pm

    have never thought of Mana in that way but have never assumed he was bi/or gay also or thought to ask anyone I know connected such a private question. My guess would be he is straight but he is an artist and the mystery is a big part of his appeal. But VK does have a good ammount of bi/gay people.

    Mana is an Alien sent to the earth by Parliament Funkadelic.
     
    Witchka and Cae like this.
    #20